Shabbos 56 – שבת נו

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Today’s Daf Yomi Question:

Dovid Hamelech was not held accountable for Uriya’s actual death – since he was a mored b’malchus – but rather for his neglect to process his case in Sanhedrin.  But without a verdict from Sanhedrin it would seem that he is considered completely innocent, just as any other capital punishment transgressor who is considered halachically innocent until the Beis Din actually issues a ruling on his guilt (see Tosfos Makkos 5a D”H V’chen, and Gilyon Hashas).

 

6 thoughts on “Shabbos 56 – שבת נו

  1. Actually, the Rambam writes that a king has a right to kill someone who is Mored Bemalchus. There is no mention of Sanhedrin or even of him being “Chayav Misa”, just simply that the king kills him. According to this there is no question about Dovid’s innocence regarding killing Urya. On the contrary, the question is why was he suppose to use a Sanhedrin? Perhaps it was only a proper way of going about it and shaking suspicion.

    Tosafos (the top Tosafos on this Amud) obviously holds that a Sanhedrin is needed, but it is different than other cases that come before Beis Din. Other cases may not be completed in one shot and cannot be done by night, while a Mored Bemalchus can be judged right away and even by night.

    This difference might be precisely due to the fact that a Mored Bemalchus, even according to Tosafos, is not merely a Din of a Mechuyav Misa. It is about the king and his honor. The Beis Din is only there to verify that he commited this Merida.

    The Gilyon Hashas alluded to in the question learns the concept, that before the Beis Din’s verdict there is no Chiyuv Misa, from a Tosafos in Kesubos. That Tosafos says that we learn from Asher Yarshi’un Elohim that the Beis Din makes him Mechuyav. Tosafos says this about Kenasos, fines. This is equivalent to saying that passing a red light doesn’t make you owe the city money, unless you actually got fined.

    However, a Mored Bemalchus, even according to Tosafos, is not merely a Kenas.

    • 1) You mean according to the Rashi (in beginning of Chaye Sara)? Perhaps the discussion here is only regarding after Matan Torah.
      2) According to R’ Yonasan: No. According to Rav: Chufni did, Pinchas didn’t.

      • But didn’t the gemara say pshat that they delayed the woman from being makriv their korbanas that’s why the torah atrributes them to having zenus with the woman

        • And what was so chashuv about dovids son kaleiv?

          I didn’t know until I did the gemara that he was such a great person. He was greater than shlomo hamelech cause the pasuk doesn’t mention shlomo for not doing any aveiros?

          • That explanation is following the opinion of Rav that they did not actually commit zenus, and the term used in the passuk is merely a euphemism.

            It’s interesting that in Brachos (4a) the Gemara also mentions Kilav as being the pride and joy of his father Dovid. .

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