Shabbos 152 – שבת קנב

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Today’s Daf Yomi Question:

In our Gemara we find Rebbi Chiya who says that (past a certain point – sealing coffin/disintegration of flesh) a Mes is unaware of what is said by people.  How is this compatible with Rebbi Chiya in Brachos (18a) who maintained that any Mes is well aware of events transpiring in this world?

 

3 thoughts on “Shabbos 152 – שבת קנב

  1. rav chia does not have to hold that a mes knows what’s going on on his own. rather he argues on Rav yonason that holds that even if the mes is told up there what’s going on he still doesn’t understand [as explained there by MAHARSHA] to that Rav Chia disagrees.

    • The Maharsha you cite is referring to the opinion of the son of Rebbi Chiya, not R”C himself, who seemed to hold that a mes is fully aware of all events, including the Tzitzis being worn by visitors to the kever.

  2. Rebbi Chiya didn’t really say that all Meisim know what is going on. He only brought a Pasuk that Tzadikim are alive even in their death. Our Gemara is talking about Meisim in general. The Gemara there as well, went on to discuss Meisim in general.

    More importantly though, is that our Gemara is referring to directly hearing and seeing what is going on. As Rashi explains, his Nefesh or his Ruach is still very much with his body and so he relates to goings on in the vicinity of his body. The Gemara in Brachos is talking about a distant awareness. That is why the Gemara there answered that they are aware of their own problems but someone else’s. Also, the examples there had nothing to do with anything going on in the vicinity of the body.

    The Gemara there mentioned as proof how a Meis was aware of who would be dying, and answered that perhaps they heard the announcement from Duma. This has absolutely nothing to do with senses, hearing or seeing. It is about the Neshama being tuned in to this world. The answer about hearing the announcement is that they are only aware of this world from the perspective of the higher world, where Duma announced it.

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