Shabbos 68 – שבת ס”ח

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Today’s Daf Yomi Question:

The Gemara interprets the word ‘Gadol’ in reference to ‘Onesh’ (greater liability) since laws of Shabbos apply also to things detached etc.; why is this related to as a ‘liability’ and not simply another detail present in Hilchos Shabbos and absent by Shemittah?

How do we understand the obligation (according to Rav and Shmuel) of a Korban Chatas for a ‘Tinok Shenishbah’ who had no prior knowledge or awareness of this mitzvah; why is he not regarded as a Ones?

 

4 thoughts on “Shabbos 68 – שבת ס”ח

  1. The Issur is greater, since it is prohibiting more objects. Every Issur binds an object from a person; it prohibits a person from something. Shabbos applies to more objects so it is a bigger Issur.

    We find this concept when Chazal say that it can’t be that we would have something that is prohibited to a non-Jew and permitted for a Jew, while we can find that the Onesh for a non-Jew would be more harsh than that of a Jew. If the idea is that the Torah is first and foremost for us, then that should apply for Onshim as well. So we see that the point is more that an Issur means that we are Makdish the object to Hashem, we are giving it up to Hashem. Therefore, it can’t be that a non-Jew gives more to Hashem than us, who were chosen to be an Am Kadosh.

  2. all are bothered by the ger shenisgayer bein hanochrim answer that the gemarah postulates today .. either the bais din did not instruct him / her on hilchos shabbos (scandalous) or something weird like that (see tosafos)
    the point is that for the past XX years he / she has not observed shabbos
    and presumably that ger (lets say giyores for sake of this discussion) married a jewish man .. and they had children ..
    I wonder .. what’s the status of those children
    and if you say that they are goyim – the mothers conversion is invalid lemafreah – then what’s the gemarahs point – she isnt jewish !!! not relevant to discussions of shabbbos issurim as she is a goitte must be that the gerus was and is considered good – even without acceptance of shmiras shabbos – and therefor the children are jewish and as such the giyores is on same level as tinok she nishbah, otherwise there is no kashe .. she is a goyteh !!
    and if above is true .. what is the issue with the gerus of the rabbanut !!!!

    • Hi,
      Great point.
      1) Geirus is only valid when he accepts upon himself the Torah and Mitzvos.
      2) Prior to Geirus, Beis Din needs to actually inform him only several Mitzvos, with the confidence that he will continue his education afterwards.
      3) The Rishonim explain that our Gemara is speaking either a) they informed him of other Mitzvos and not Shabbos, or b) they mistakenly neglected to inform him of any Mitzvos (after he theoretically accepted the Torah upon himself).
      All the best

  3. Technically you might be able to answer that although he is a Tinok Shenishba and had no access to proper information, it is possible for him to understand that since he was never exposed to the main body of Yiddidhkeit he should go out and find it. However, there is a better explanation:

    An Onnes is when somebody’s actions are forced, and does not reflect on any shortcoming of his. A Shogeg, is when although not faulted, a Kapara is necessary because the Cheit originated though a human shortcoming. Not knowing that the day is Shabbos is not anybody’s fault. We can hardly tell him you should have asked if today is Shabbos. Nevertheless, forgetting and not realizing are human shortcomings, and since we try to match up to higher standards we need a Kapara.

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